[dev] Installation Thoughts

[Ralf Lang]

On 18.10.2013 20:34, Michael M Slusarz wrote:
> Quoting Jan Schneider <jan at horde.org>:
> 
>> Zitat von Mathieu Parent <math.parent at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> 2013/10/17 Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org>:
>>>> Going through our installation process on a Debian VM (specifically
>>>> using a
>>>> distro that has given us issues), and here's what I think so far. 
>>>> (This is
>>>> simply on the PEAR install process - this is independent of
>>>> configuring/running any of our code.)
>>>
>>> (with my Debian packager hat).
>>>
>>> Shouldn't the recommended way to install Horde on distributions be
>>> using the native package manager?
>>
>> At least for those distros that keep the horde packages up-to-date,
>> yes, probably. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't make the pear
>> installation easier, even on package-supported distros.
> 
> And from our perspective, we have no control what happens downstream. 
> So we have to provide an installation path that is easy-to-use under the
> assumption that this is the only way people are going to install.
> 
>>> For Debian jessie, this can be done with:
>>> apt-get install php-horde-webmail # for example
>>>
>>> Complete instructions (including Debian 7) are at:
>>> https://wiki.debian.org/Horde
>>>
>>> This provide better upgrade mechanism as well as proper dependency
>>> tracking (PEAR lacks in those both areas, and Composer is not really
>>> better).
>>
>> Agreed.
> 
> Can't speak for Composer, since I don't have too much experience with
> it.  But putting together the proof of concept script last night in a
> few hours would never have happened without it.  I was stressing over
> how I was going to use PEAR to install the necessary Horde libs for the
> installer script in a temp directory to package via phar.  When I used
> composer instead, I had in running in probably 5 minutes.
> 
>>>> * Two immediate fatal flaws I see.  beta/alpha packages are NEVER
>>>> installed
>>>> and packages from foreign channels are NEVER installed.  At least
>>>> with the
>>>> default PEAR settings on Debian 7.
>>>
>>> This seems a reasonable default.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> This can be fixed by doing a force install (-f).  But I have to
>>>> admit that,
>>>> as someone familiar with PEAR/PECL, this is not apparent to me at
>>>> all.  For
>>>> someone -- i.e. pretty much every one else -- they are going to
>>>> think that
>>>> horde_lz4 is properly installed on their system.
>>>
>>> Yes. PEAR is broken in handling PECL packages.
>>>
>>>> Takeaways from all this:
>>>>  1. Not saying we should remove -B, but we have to workaround this.
>>>
>>> Why don't you simply remove -B?
>>
>> Because it requires build permissions and environments and
>> dependencies like external libraries that cannot simply be pulled in.
>> Installing without -B is explicitly documented by the way.
> 
> To me it's simply the fact that you are potentially building a whole
> mess of modules that a) you are never going to use or b) won't compile
> on your system, which I believe is Jan's concern.
> 
> The issue is that certain PECL features - like horde_lz4 - are entirely
> self-contained, so there's no reason NOT to build them.
> 
> Hiding the install process behind a script allows us to force install
> things like horde_lz4 without the confusion/complexity of trying to
> explain to a novice user in an INSTALL file why they should do it (and
> why they should do it for a small selection of packages, but not all
> packages).
> 

The assumption that a server designated to run php code has a full-blown
c build environment may be wrong, especially if the pecl module needs
external headers not shipped.


-- 
Ralf Lang
Linux Consultant / Developer
Tel.: +49-170-6381563
Mail: lang at b1-systems.de
B1 Systems GmbH
Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de
GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 263 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.horde.org/archives/dev/attachments/20131023/b873922d/attachment.bin>