[horde] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Interface design Horde 4.1/5.0

Gunnar Wrobel wrobel at horde.org
Tue Apr 24 17:48:56 UTC 2012

Zitat von Louis-Philippe Allard <lp.allard.1 at gmail.com>:

> On 2012-04-24 1:13 PM, "Jānis" <je at ktf.rtu.lv> wrote:
>> Citējot Louis-Philippe Allard <lp.allard.1 at gmail.com>
>> Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:18:02 -0400:
>>> What do they find annoying with the dynamic view? ?  Apart a few bugs I
>>> find it very easy to use.. sure there are some space left for improvement
>>> but that's why horde 5 will be better!
>> it's difficult to say - some just asked whether the previous (traditional
> look) isn't around anymore, some expressed personal frustration... I can't
> give a technical "disliked because this or that did not work", so i found
> it much easier to issue "technical advice" how to get traditional view back
> on desktop.
>> Besides, I think if the job is done, it is absolutely unimportant whether
> one used bells and whistles or just "traditional" tools. To my and my
> colleague's mind, forced introduction of something "cool" which makes just
> visual changes is the last thing to do in well functioning system.
>> Janis
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> Im absolutely against bells and whistles that's why I left windows forever
> and went for Linux but that's out of topic..
> I agree if the system is functional and runs smooth then don't touch it.
> However I can't say its the case with horde at this point.
> I personally think the horde devs and leaders should focus on simplicity in
> the code and features,

Code yes, features not so much. Horde traditionally offers a lot of  
features as compared to comparable solutions. I don't think this will  
change in the future.

> improve the administrative side for admins but also
> for the end users,  and very importantly the upgrade and migratory
> processes.  Each time ive upgraded horde with the simple command pear
> upgrade -a -B yada yada,  ive ended up losing some configuration, I had
> sync problems with my Android phone,  or something broke..

That is definitely not intended. Horde 4.0 was a major step for us  
because we moved from a very cumbersome upgrade system to the PEAR  
based system. This should reduce the upgrade procedure to the command  
you mentioned and a click in the admin menu. "losing some  
configuration" should definitely not happen as long as you use the  
*.local.php files. "something broke" probably means that we failed and  
introduced a new bug in our line of stable releases. We were not as  
stable the last year than we were used to be. We probably also have to  
get used to the new way of releasing the packages. While it is much  
quicker than before it should of course not introduce new  
instabilities. Concerning synchronization: This is an advanced topic.  
Expecting this to be rock solid will probably not be too easy for  
quite some time. This is an area with frequent bugfixes as there are  
so many different clients out there. I don't know if additional unit  
testing in that area might help the stability for that feature.

> Like I said, its probably due in part to my lack of experience in
> administrating PHP or whatever it is, but if perfection was close, I could
> just send the upgrade command and with minimal interaction,  horde would be
> migrated.

Anything other than that would be a bug. Even if it happened just  
because instructions weren't clear enough: tell us. There is always  
room to improve.

> While I don't especially fancy bells and whistles,  I have a strong
> appreciation for enhanced features and task automation.

I think this is what Horde is about.



> My 2 cents using horde for about 18 months
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