[horde] Signature

Tue Nov 6 21:54:58 UTC 2012

----- Nachricht von Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt> ---------
   Datum: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 23:38:59 +0200
     Von: Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt>
Betreff: Re: [horde] Signature
      An: horde at lists.horde.org

> Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 11:25:34 PM, you wrote:
>
>> my 2 cents..
>
>> ----- Nachricht von Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt> ---------
>>    Datum: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 23:14:27 +0200
>>      Von: Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt>
>> Betreff: Re: [horde] Signature
>>       An: horde at lists.horde.org
>
>
>>> Sveiki,
>>>
>>> Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 10:58:36 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6 November 2012 14:26, Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 9:13:00 PM, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6 November 2012 13:51, Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Quoting Jens Grüntjes <jens.gruentjes at ebira.de>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Zitat von Ole Wolf <wolf at blazingangles.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Quoting Andreas Mauser <andreas at mauser.info>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the idea. It seems to be the only  
>>>>>>>>>> workaround(?) for now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any chance that there will be a checkbox in the future to
>>>>>>>>>> set/unset the
>>>>>>>>>> signature?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure whether I'd consider it a workaround or something
>>>>>>>>> worthy of
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> checkbox. Most email clients that I've used simply append  
>>>>>>>>> the signature
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the compose window so you could delete it if necessary; IMP  
>>>>>>>>> used to do
>>>>>>>>> that, too, so it's probably a design decision. In any event, I
>>>>>>>>> don't feel
>>>>>>>>> entirely comfortable about the implied inclusion of the  
>>>>>>>>> signature that
>>>>>>>>> IMP
>>>>>>>>> H5 applies. I would prefer to see what's being sent in the email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would also prefer to be able to choose whether I want the  
>>>>>>>> signature an
>>>>>>>> what signature I want. Should one make an enhancement on
>>>>>>>> bugs.horde.org for
>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No - it's not happening ever.  This has already been discussed
>>>>>>> and rejected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to send a message without signatures, set-up a separate
>>>>>>> identity.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In principle I agree with you - in fact, I think signatures are on the
>>>>>> whole completely useless and irrelevant and as much sense as stupid
>>>>>> legal disclaimers.
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, the world functions on a certain amount of perception - and
>>>>>> therefore some people require a signature to believe in the
>>>>>> professionalism or some other quality of the sender.  Thus, whilst new
>>>>>> messages sometimes require a signature I have yet to see the case
>>>>>> where a signature is required or needed on a reply (except by people
>>>>>> too simple to understand the concept or full of their own importance).
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've yet to win a design or functionality argument with any member of
>>>>>> the Horde team, so I don't expect to win this one, but a the ideal
>>>>>> solution for me as an administrator is a check box (either ticked or
>>>>>> not ticked by default in the compose preferences) that inserts or
>>>>>> removes the signature would be the perfect solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Simon
>>>>>
>>>>> As  a  person  using signatures extensively I must oppose this at some
>>>>> level.
>>>>>
>>>>> The  signatures are not only used in professional cases. The signature
>>>>> can  be  as short as one word. In your case for example it is "Simon".
>>>>> But it *is* signature.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you need to enable/disable signature per message basis, just create
>>>>> two  profiles,  one  with  signature  and  another  without. Switching
>>>>> profiles is as fast as clicking a checkbox.
>>>>>
>>>>> What  other  useful feature I see from the discussion is that it would
>>>>> be  great  to  have  one  profile for New Messages and one profile for
>>>>> Replies/Forwards.   This   way   all   new  messages  will  have  full
>>>>> professional signature and replies just simple "Simon".
>>>
>>>
>>>> The problem with this approach is that Horde uses identities for
>>>> everything - and that can quickly add up.  You have listed 5 use cases
>>>> already, now add another email address/profile and you have 10,  All I
>>>
>>> This is unrelated problem. If you say that profiles should be separate
>>> from  signatures,  then  yes,  that  could  be useful addition in some
>>> *edge* cases.
>
>> In our case it's like Simon said.
>
>>>> am saying - given my opposition to signatures anyway - is that there
>>>> should be a better more streamlined way to do this.  With AJAX we have
>>>> the ability to make make this very slick.  One check-box to add or
>>>> remove a signature, and a drop-down (that appears when the box is
>>>> checked) to allow the selection of which signature, and the users are
>>>> happy, and the admin are happy.  Using identities to do this seems
>>>> like a clever idea for Horde3, but I think we can and should be doing
>>>> better in Horde5.
>>>
>>> In  theory, there should be no cases where you don't need a signature at
>>> all.   Just   make  "Simon"  a  default  one  and  there, you have it,
>>> all new emails with simple "no signature" writing.
>
>> I do not fully agree. Different Users, different use cases. Sales
>> users e.g. would use different signatures for different customers,
>> regarding events for example, where partners don't receive the same
>> signature 'subtitle' as end customers do. But that's just one of many.
>> And some time I just don't want a signature to be attached, see this
>> mailing list (using different profile with NO signature...)
>
> And that's just bad manners IMHO.

It doesn't prevent me from writing my own ending words at the end of an email.
But would it be a major redesign or H5? There is already a dropdown  
menu 'More functions (Weitere Funktionen)' which only has one option  
at this time. This would be a good place where Horde could place the  
signatures dropdown.

>> Adding such use cases to the sum of email profiles can also be annoying.
>> I still would like to see a dropdown menu, where I can choose from my
>> different pre-designed signatures - like MS Outlook has. I feel
>> improving signatures can be an additional and good business driver for
>> Horde, helping users doing their work done (as fast as possible, but
>> not faster)
>
> Current  IMP  implementation  from  MS Outlook differs only if you are
> using  different  E-Mail/Name  for  different  customers. If not, it's
> still the same drop-down. I know, because I use both and I don't see a
> difference.

I also use different profiles for having signature or not, but still  
not feeling comfortable to keep more profiles for different use. But  
you are right, using profiles gives me very similar/ the same effect.

Regards,
Andreas
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