[imp] removed contact menu entry

Rich Lafferty rich@horde.org
Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:04:09 -0400
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On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 12:46:30PM -0400, Chuck Hagenbuch (chuck@horde.org) wrote:
> 
> Basically, having the link there bugs me because it's completely
> redundant if you've got the Horde menu there. I can see wanting
> something besides expand names in the compose window, and I have an
> idea of what I want to do for that (a Turba script which can talk
> back to a calling window through javascript callbacks). Will that
> satisfy people, or are there tons of you who are dead set against
> using the Horde framework?

Redundancy is not undesirable in user interfaces. Count the number of
ways to say "go back one page" in Netscape, for instance, or the
number of ways to delete a file in Windows -- or, for that matter, the
number of ways to mark a message as "Deleted" in IMP's mailbox view.

I don't think it's about being dead set against it as much as it is
having the option. In particular, the situation for a site running
only IMP and Turba -- which I think will be very common -- means
having to give up screen real estate for the Horde framework for three
links at the bottom, two of which are not useful at any given moment.

In other words, in what I expect will be the most popular set of Horde
applications to install, users don't *need* to know about the
framework. Having all of the "action" links at the top *except*
contacts is inconsistent interface design, and strikes me as being
programmer-led rather than user-led. While there are advantages to
having Turba as a separate application, there are equally powerful
advantages to having it *conceptually* part of IMP in the
installations in which there is nothing else for it to be part of.

   -Rich
 
-- 
Rich Lafferty --------------+-----------------------------------------------
 Montreal, Quebec, Canada   |  "Do not dangle the mouse by the cord or
 http://www.lafferty.ca/    |   throw it at coworkers."  -- SGI Indy manual
rich@lafferty.ca -----------+-----------------------------------------------


>From chuck@horde.org Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 13:12:04 -0400
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Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 13:12:04 -0400
From: Chuck Hagenbuch <chuck@horde.org>
To: imp@lists.horde.org
References: <991829986.3b1e1fe274fb2@linux.wg.de> <991838288.3b1e4050bfa70@marina.horde.org> <991836353.3b1e38c117573@192.168.1.10> <20010606111842.C31982@lafferty.ca> <991845990.3b1e5e66f1d45@marina.horde.org> <20010606130409.G31982@lafferty.ca>
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Subject: Re: [imp] removed contact menu entry

Quoting Rich Lafferty <rich@horde.org>:

> Redundancy is not undesirable in user interfaces. Count the number of
> ways to say "go back one page" in Netscape, for instance, or the
> number of ways to delete a file in Windows -- or, for that matter, the
> number of ways to mark a message as "Deleted" in IMP's mailbox view.

I think it's undesireable in this particular case; it'd be like having two 
buttons in your web browser that meant "go back one page", except that they had 
different icons and one of them opened the page in a new window.

> In other words, in what I expect will be the most popular set of Horde
> applications to install, users don't *need* to know about the
> framework. Having all of the "action" links at the top *except*
> contacts is inconsistent interface design, and strikes me as being
> programmer-led rather than user-led. While there are advantages to
> having Turba as a separate application, there are equally powerful
> advantages to having it *conceptually* part of IMP in the
> installations in which there is nothing else for it to be part of.

Alright, how about this: we add a configuration option to IMP (and any app) 
called $conf['menu']['apps'] (or something similar). It contains an array of 
app names to include links to in the menubar.

-chuck

--
Charles Hagenbuch, <chuck@horde.org>
Black and white and grey, all the shades of truth.


>From lee@badencorp.com Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 12:10:03 -0400
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Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 12:10:03 -0400
From: Lee Nash <lee@badencorp.com>
To: imp@lists.horde.org, Chuck Hagenbuch <chuck@horde.org>
References: <991829986.3b1e1fe274fb2@linux.wg.de> <991838288.3b1e4050bfa70@marina.horde.org> <991836353.3b1e38c117573@192.168.1.10> <20010606111842.C31982@lafferty.ca> <991845990.3b1e5e66f1d45@marina.horde.org>
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Subject: Re: [imp] removed contact menu entry

Quoting Chuck Hagenbuch <chuck@horde.org>:

> Quoting Rich Lafferty <rich@horde.org>:
> > and I imagine that a decent number of sites will run IMP
> > "alone" without having users enter via the Horde framework.
> 
> This is a seperate issue. I think at some point we need to encourage people
> to 
> use the framework, because there's a lot to be gained from it, and we're not
> 
> going to get terribly far if we're always making exceptions for people who
> just 
> use IMP. If screen real-estate is an issue, I've been thinking of moving the
> horde bar to the left side and making it vertical; we can also make the frame
> resizable.
> 
> Basically, having the link there bugs me because it's completely redundant if
> you've got the Horde menu there. I can see wanting something besides expand
> names in the compose window, and I have an idea of what I want to do for that
> (a Turba script which can talk back to a calling window through javascript 
> callbacks). Will that satisfy people, or are there tons of you who are dead
> set 
> against using the Horde framework?
> 
> -chuck

I think you are right.  The link is redundant.  With frame placement, maybe
there is a way to keep a modules (imp,turba,etc) bar somewhere on each module
(minus the current module) that wouldn't be too obtrusive.  
As with my earlier reply, I think a turba link from the To/Cc/Bcc labels from 
the compose window would be great.

The horde framework is good.  Sure some sites are email/contacts only, but
those of us in office/school/etc installations would like to see a total
package one day.

Keep up the good work,
-lee 


>From chuck@horde.org Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 13:12:45 -0400
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Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2001 13:12:45 -0400
From: Chuck Hagenbuch <chuck@horde.org>
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Subject: Re: [imp] Turba

Quoting Ranger Fox <rangerfox@rangerfox.com>:

> Also, I have turna set up in registry.php and it works, except under options 
> in imp, I have to address book option.  While reading through previous posts 
> I noticed "go to Options->addressbook" and I have no addressbook in my 
> options.  Any help is appreciated.

Is your config/prefs.php up to date?

-chuck

--
Charles Hagenbuch, <chuck@horde.org>
Black and white and grey, all the shades of truth.
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