[dev] Time/billing system

Mike Coughlan mcoughlan@gothambroadband.com
Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:28:26 -0500
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Hi Jan,

> I agree that the great problem with time tracking software is that users
> forget to track there time. We used achievo here in my company but it's
> quite dead now because people doesn't use it actually.

Great, then would you also agree that a good and convient UI is one of the
most important requirements?



> This is why I like the way time tracking is handled by PHProjekt
> (http://www.phprojekt.com). I had the chance to be at a
> presentation of the
> author on the php concference.

Maybe it's just what I am used to, but I still prefer the interface of
journyX.  The concept of entering begining and ending times is unfriendly
and without value, unless we want report on what time of day people are
working on things.




> We agreed in the Horde team that we have to put more focus on
> group support
> e.g. group calendars. If we can get Horde so far that is becomes the main
> tool while in office (as replacement for Outlook/Exchange or
> similar tools)
> the chances are that users actually will use the time tracking feature.

I disagree - there is strong demand right now for a timesheet tool
regardles.  We dumped Exchange and use Meeting Maker, Linux IMAP, IMP, LDAP
for a public rolodex, and journyX for our timesheet.   We would gladly
atomically remove journyX at any time to avoid more liscensing fees.  We
don't use a ticketing system or task assignment tool.  Email is handling
that well.




> But time tracking doesn't make much sense without project
> assingment. So a project manager should also be discussed here and kept in
mind to be
> implemented as a Horde module.

Why do you say this? I would not try to assist companies on their work flow,
process, or ticketing yet.  These can be sacred areas, difficult to
penetrate.

And don't forget that there are many bloated tools that offer this as well.
CleacCase version management is one example - everyone hated it because it
tried to do task assignment.  We are ditching it for CVS. Bugzilla also
wants to do this, as do helpdesk systems.

I strongly reccomend an intial implementation that simply accepts hours and
allows privlidged users to report on them every which way under the sun to
make important financial decisions.

Again, I would not focus on the project manager as the customer, but rather
the accountants. They are the ones who read the data, and they could care
less about task assignment.

I would also suggest that we look at commercial systems for ideas, and not
opensource code.  I will attempt to install the JournyX demo in our DMZ.  It
seems to me that some of the base Kronolith code may be recycled for a
interface that is similar.

Thanks for soliciting for input, and the reply.

MC



> Jan.
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> AMMMa AG - discover your knowledge
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> Detmolder Str. 25-33 :: D-33604 Bielefeld
> fon +49.521.96878-0 :: fax  +49.521.96878-20
> http://www.ammma.de
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> --
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>



>From max@lsit.ucsb.edu Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 07:55:54 -0800
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From: Max Kalika <max@lsit.ucsb.edu>
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Subject: Re: [dev] turba RC and branching

Quoting Jan Schneider <jan@horde.org>:

> Here's my opinion again: We should also push Turba to version 1.0.0RC1 
> because people probably won't use IMP without Turba and would be irritating
> if they can use Horde and IMP tarballs but have to download Turba from cvs.

Agreed wholeheartedly.  The only thing I have left for turba is to polish the 
main ui a bit.  How is this for everyone?  (I like consistancy) :-)

   http://valkyrie.lsit.ucsb.edu/~max/search.jpg

I'm also working on a pine addressbook driver for import/export.  (We had a lot 
of local requests for it).  But that is nothing that can hold turba up.  I'm 
all for rolling up a turba tarball and branching horde, imp, and turba.

-- 
---max kalika
--max@lsit.ucsb.edu
-lsit systems administrator


>From jan@horde.org Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 17:01:25 +0100
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Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 17:01:25 +0100
From: Jan Schneider <jan@horde.org>
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Subject: RE: [dev] Time/billing system

Zitat von Mike Coughlan <mcoughlan@gothambroadband.com>:

> Hi Jan,
> 
> > I agree that the great problem with time tracking software is that
> users
> > forget to track there time. We used achievo here in my company but
> it's
> > quite dead now because people doesn't use it actually.
> 
> Great, then would you also agree that a good and convient UI is one of
> the
> most important requirements?

Yes, of course. That was something that impressed me most when I came to 
the Horde Project: The nice and useable ui.

> > This is why I like the way time tracking is handled by PHProjekt
> > (http://www.phprojekt.com). I had the chance to be at a
> > presentation of the
> > author on the php concference.
> 
> Maybe it's just what I am used to, but I still prefer the interface of
> journyX.  The concept of entering begining and ending times is
> unfriendly
> and without value, unless we want report on what time of day people are
> working on things.

Perhaps it was unclear: You don't have to enter any time there. You just 
click a button when you come to work, leave for lunch, come back from lunch 
and going home.

> > We agreed in the Horde team that we have to put more focus on
> > group support
> > e.g. group calendars. If we can get Horde so far that is becomes the
> main
> > tool while in office (as replacement for Outlook/Exchange or
> > similar tools)
> > the chances are that users actually will use the time tracking
> feature.
> 
> I disagree - there is strong demand right now for a timesheet tool

I think all Horde apps just started with providing a small set of features 
and growed from there to what they are now. So why not just start a small 
timesheet tool the plugs into the horde framework and see where it will go 
to.

> > But time tracking doesn't make much sense without project
> > assingment. So a project manager should also be discussed here and kept
> in
> mind to be
> > implemented as a Horde module.
> 
> Why do you say this? I would not try to assist companies on their work
> flow,
> process, or ticketing yet.  These can be sacred areas, difficult to
> penetrate.

A project management can also grow and I think we already have some tools 
that could provide a lot of features to such a module: Nag for todo items, 
Whups for trouble tickets, Kronolith for time lines/due dates and the 
fourthcoming timesheet for time tracking.
Btw: The first step should be to find a nice horde like name. :-)

> I strongly reccomend an intial implementation that simply accepts hours
> and
> allows privlidged users to report on them every which way under the sun
> to
> make important financial decisions.

Agreed.
 
> Again, I would not focus on the project manager as the customer, but
> rather
> the accountants. They are the ones who read the data, and they could
> care
> less about task assignment.

Agreed.
 
> I would also suggest that we look at commercial systems for ideas, and
> not
> opensource code.  I will attempt to install the JournyX demo in our DMZ. 
> It
> seems to me that some of the base Kronolith code may be recycled for a
> interface that is similar.

Great.

Jan.
 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 
AMMMa AG - discover your knowledge
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Detmolder Str. 25-33 :: D-33604 Bielefeld
fon +49.521.96878-0 :: fax  +49.521.96878-20
http://www.ammma.de
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


>From jan@horde.org Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 17:06:09 +0100
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Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 17:06:09 +0100
From: Jan Schneider <jan@horde.org>
To: dev@lists.horde.org
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Subject: Re: [dev] turba RC and branching

Zitat von Max Kalika <max@lsit.ucsb.edu>:

> Quoting Jan Schneider <jan@horde.org>:
> 
> > Here's my opinion again: We should also push Turba to version 1.0.0RC1
> 
> > because people probably won't use IMP without Turba and would be
> irritating
> > if they can use Horde and IMP tarballs but have to download Turba from
> cvs.
> 
> Agreed wholeheartedly.  The only thing I have left for turba is to polish
> the 
> main ui a bit.  How is this for everyone?  (I like consistancy) :-)
> 
>    http://valkyrie.lsit.ucsb.edu/~max/search.jpg

Hm, on the first look I liked the old one more. But that's probably because 
I'm used to it and the new one is definitely more consistent.
Go for it.
 
> I'm also working on a pine addressbook driver for import/export.  (We had
> a lot 
> of local requests for it).  But that is nothing that can hold turba up. 

Great. If you need any help, let me know. 
There's also a Windows addressbook driver coming but both could be 
implemented into a second RC.

Jan.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 
AMMMa AG - discover your knowledge
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Detmolder Str. 25-33 :: D-33604 Bielefeld
fon +49.521.96878-0 :: fax  +49.521.96878-20
http://www.ammma.de
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


>From andreas@dahlen.ws Date: Thu,  8 Nov 2001 19:16:50 +0100
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?QW5kcmVhcyBEYWhs6W4=?= <andreas@dahlen.ws>
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Subject: Translation to swedish

Hello!

I've working on translateing Horde and IMP to swedish, but I can't 
get it to work.  I followed the instructions in the po/README;

* run xgettext.sh in po
* rename messages.po to sv.po
* Update the header and translate
* make install (no error messages)
* Verified that locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/horde.mo (and imp.mo) where
  created.
* Added a new line to horde/config/lang.php
  $nls['languages']['sv'] = 'Svenska';

When I choose 'Svenska' on the loginscreen or in the preferences, I 
still get text in english. If I fopr example choose 'Deutsch' the 
text is changed to german.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated!

/Andreas
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