[dev] Skeleton

[Ron Cooper]

Quoting Jon Parise <jon at horde.org>:

> On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 09:42:36PM -0600, Ron Cooper wrote:
>
>> Is there some kind soul out there that could possibly find the time
>> in  their extremely busy schedule to complete Skeleton and ensure it is
>> functional?

> In what way is it not functional?


Hello Jon!  Thanks for the reply.

>From the README in Skeleton base:

<snip>
"What is Skeleton?
-----------------

Use this module as a blank base for Horde applications. All of the
files in this module are to be used as examples. Please customize them
for your own application s's requirements."
<snip>

Is my expectations set too high in wanting Skeleton to provide a simple
baseline on how to construct a Horde application?  So it is
non-functional to the extent it does not adequately provide a base for a
working application.  On my latest cvs update , Skeleton has missing
files, and is appears to me to be inconsistent with  current Horde
methods.

I have to assume a "Blank base" for Horde applications should be
functional to the extent you can at least see how to setup prefs,
options, help, menus etc.  Assuming that Skeleton is to have any value at
all to someone who aspires to spend their time developing in your
framework as I do.

I assume the Skeleton should be capable of sending some tangible result to
a web browser other than warnings and errors messages.  And I assume that
if Skeleton should reference a file, that the file should exist so that I
can examine it to understand its structure and purpose.

Jon, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here.  To me, Skeleton is as
important as IMP, TURBA or any other module in Horde. I know that things
are in a constant state of change, but it seems to me that if you or any
of the horde developers cared enough to put Skeleton into CVS to begin
with, then you should continue to update it and ensure it meets its
design goals just as you would any other Horde application.

A working reference baseline could save someone countless hours trying to
figure out your framework. As you stated yourself, Horde is a complex
PHP application so it follows that using an existing Horde app as a
baseline to creating Horde applications is probably not the best thing to
do as it is hard to differentiate the signal from the noise so to speak.


> At what point did the code stop working?  When it stopped working, did
> you review the list of changes?  Have you tried sync'ing back to the
> earlier ("working") code in CVS?

Of course I synced back. I keep multiple cvs versions on line because I
know things could break at any given time.   My application last worked
with the CVS update on 28-OCT-03 at 10:12 AM CST.   Any update after that
is the problem.

And it's entirely probable that my original applications working in Horde
was done incorrectly anyway.  Since there seems to be no authoritative
template showing the proper way of doing an application other than the
existing set of Horde apps themselves.  Which one to use as a baseline
for my application then?  Right now, I would just like to know the
absolutely bare basics need to just get my application working within the
framework.

I have no idea now why it does not work.  I cant find any previous
archived information about why a horde application would upon posting a
form would cause a chain of events that would require a login. But this
appears to be the main problem.  Log files do not seem to show anything
helpful.  I've managed to get all the setup, horde options, menus etc
working again.


> Having a "complete" Skeleton module is not going to improve this
> situation.  Horde is a complicated PHP application, and while I
> understand your goal here is not to necessarily learn PHP, you might
> want to cut your teeth on something simpler.

No sir I think not!  I have too much time and effort invested to just
switch to something else.  But your point is well made and I understand
what you meant.

I fail to see how proving a simple, documented, easy to understand example
of how to create a basic application in Horde would not improve this
situation.

There has to be a starting reference point.  My time is a limited valuable
asset just like yours is.   I'd be willing to bet some of my projects
would be equally difficult for you to get started in were you not a core
developer.

Its quite clear from where I'm standing at least that I have a large
measure of faith in what Horde is doing and am willing to invest my time
and efforts in learning how to effectively use and implement what has
been provided thus far And while I do not ask for my hand to be held, I
was hoping at least one developer would see how it looks from the other
side of the fence and provide the missing pieces to Skeleton.  In
exchange for making it a little easier for those of us who are not at
your level of expertise, you get a whole group of folks, or at lest 1
person  who may possibly be able to grow and contribute something to your
efforts, assuming of course that new developers is want is wanted :=).

Thanks for response.

Ron




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