[doc] Fwd: Re: [turba] horde db shortcomings

Chuck Hagenbuch chuck at horde.org
Tue Oct 21 14:29:31 PDT 2003


(... but what a rug!)

----- Forwarded message from lee.wiggers at americanelevatorinspection.com -----
    Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:19:18 -0400
    From: Lee Wiggers <lee.wiggers at americanelevatorinspection.com>
Reply-To: Lee Wiggers <lee.wiggers at americanelevatorinspection.com>
 Subject: Re: [turba] horde db shortcomings
      To: turba at lists.horde.org

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:09:51 -0400
"Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> wrote:

> > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:01:18 +0200
> > From: Zemon <zemon at ananzi.co.za>
> > Subject: Re: [turba] how wrong is this?
> > To: turba at lists.horde.org
> > Message-ID: <20031021090118.GA23568 at ananzi.co.za>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > You seem to need an introduction to is the postgresql ORDMS
> > (http://www.postgresql.org/) and then you might have a better
> > chance with applications that depend on SQL e.g. Horde
> >
> > Reading is really a required skill especially you don't have an
> > idea of what is what (Horde, Postgresql, *nix ethos).  This
> > should have been your first step! i.e RTFM - especially when
> > your *nix skill level is basic.
> If you read what I wrote, you would see that I had a read all the
> documentation pertaining to the horde suite.  I have been
> reluctantly using Horde for about two years.  It has always
> impressed me that how a project with such promise can be crippled
> by such poor documentation.
> When I put together open source projects, I try to make an
> assumption that the user needs to know nothing more than what is
> necessary to get the system working, usually by detailed
> instructions or a guaranteed not to fail script.
> so, if I included a database in one of my projects, I would give
> instance implementers complete instructions on how to set up the
> database completely because it is a bad assumption to assume that
> the user of your project gives a care about databases.  They're
> just a tool to let them get their work done and if they get in the
> way or are difficult to manage, then they are broken and should be
> discarded as a tool.
> when you look at the actual instructions for setting up turba,
> they are for the most part sufficient if you're into fiddling.  It
> is not what I would consider adequate for a production
> environment.  the database scripts however are fundamentally
> flawed.  The instructions were just wrong.  There is no
> explanation is no description of what the final result should be
> in terms of tables, entries, permissions, or ownership.
>   You have no precondition or post condition documentation.  you
>   have no
> metric to tell the implementer how to know when they are done.
> yes, I was a bit grumpy from frustration and the lack of polish
> with which the package was put together.  Sure I might be able to
> get things to work if I spend a few weeks becoming an expert in
> postgresql but why should I have to?  is this some kind of IT jobs
> program?  I have avoided working with databases for the past
> twenty plus years because they seem to do nothing but screwup,
> overly complicate or delay projects.  This experience has done
> nothing to change my mind.
> so, either you can leave this product inadequate and unfinished or
> you can work with me to figure out what is wrong and generate a
> new set of documentation or scripts so that the next poor sod
> won't get so badly hammered.
> ---eric
> --
> Speech recognition in use.  Incorrect endings, words, and case is
> closer than it appears
> --
> Turba mailing list
> Frequently Asked Questions: http://horde.org/faq/
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There are many lurkers out here waiting for the docs.  When you are
arrogant enough to tell me to rtfm, you'd better be learning to WTFM
or at least accept all the help you can get when offered.

Without docs your project is poop on the rug.

Hats off, Eric.  Well said.


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----- End forwarded message -----


Charles Hagenbuch, <chuck at horde.org>
Born right the first time.

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