[horde] Re: response to your continued berating

Jeff Warnica jeffw at chebucto.ns.ca
Thu Dec 4 19:20:11 PST 2003

On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 22:41, sisterscape wrote:
> --- Jeff Warnica <jeffw at chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
> > Personaly, I assume that people asking questions about
> > Horde are sysadmins, and thus should be smart.
> I am hoping this just came out the wrong way.  Surely you don't mean
> that if someone isn't a sysadmin, they aren't smart.

Nope, and thats pure logic. First year CS Discreet Math (or fourth year
Philosiphy). A implies B dose not necessaraly mean B implies A.

"I took a plate of food out of the microwave, I expected it to be hot".
Clearly not all hot plates just came out of the microwave.

> > Even if a user is having
> > problems with Horde that may require the advice of a Horde developer
> > to fix, that should be sent through the local admin.
> I agree with this.  I would prefer not to be in the position of having
> to try to find solutions to problems that are beyond my current skill
> set. (I have gotten Linux installed on a desktop as a first step to
> learning more about sysadmin but can never find the time.)
> Unfortunately, the option that was suggested for me to pursue was to do
> the research myself. This has worked quite well for troubleshooting
> other server problems in the past. (We are non-profits on a tight
> budget so trying to find ways to 'do it ourseleves' as much as
> possible.)

I dont recall your paticular problem... Since we seem to be talking more
on philosiphy then anything else, Im not quite sure what to think on
having your provider tell you to fix it yourself, or at least do the
research so they can fix it easily. Being ABLE to fix it yourself can be
a good thing, but it sounds like Horde is installed a generic app (as it
typically is), so not something that you as a user should be allowed to
fix. If the problem is a bug as opposed to a lack of a feature, then it
is your providers responsibility to fix it; it ultimatly might be a
Horde bug, but your relatonship is with your provider, not with Horde.

Your story reminds me the standard UNIX "someone elses problem" story:
hardware guys point the finger at the OS guys. OS guys point the finger
at the library developers. Library developers point the finger at the
App developers, app developers point the finger at the window manager
folks, window manager folks point the finger at the X consirtium... All
the poor user gets is the finger.

I dont want to make any gernerlizatios about Plesk powered ISPs.. Ive
consitered deploying it myself. But its tierred management, and dead
simple (deceiveingly simple) interface can turn anyone with a credit
card into a web hosting company. I personaly know people who shouldnt be
trusted to go to the store and back to fetch milk who are doing exactly
that: running a Plesk powered web hosting company off a $100/month
dedicates server.

> I am assuming that the answers posted to this list will be forwarded to
> the sysadmins and that eventually the problem will be fixed. Thanks to
> all those who have been kind enough to offer suggestions.

I wish you luck, though reviewing what you have sent in, the trouble
does seem to be with your IMAP server..

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