[horde] Upgrade to Horde4, or stay with 3?

[Eric Jon Rostetter]

Quoting Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:

> Am 11.05.2011 19:31, schrieb Eric Jon Rostetter:
>
>> Yes.  There is a policy as the this on the web site.  Always has been.
>> Read it.  Understand it
>
> where is it? nobody can read the whole homepage and there is no orientation
> where will be the downloads?

See my other post where I state my mistake (I forgot about the
web site reorg, wiki split, etc).

[lots of crap skipped]

>>> seeing that there no longer tarballs, the PEAR splitted in thousands of
>> PEAR packages are tarballs...
>
> PEAR is a bad joke because you have no control with "pear upgrade"
> what version will be fetched if you have more than one machine

If you install "<package>-1.1" it installs verions 1.1.  How hard is that?

> so it can be that on your test-machine all is sane and the
> next day you get a newer package on production-system which
> is broken

Specify the versions, and that isn't a problem.  Or copy the install
from your test to your production.

>> If you need tarballs, you can download the PEAR tarballs. If you need
>> consolidated tarballs, you can manually combine the PEAR tarballs into
>> larger consolidated tarballs.  Fairly trivial really.
>
> "you can, you can..."
>
> the developers can generate this packages in the normal process
> without any manually step if they only want

You seem no to understand that PEAR packages are just tarballs.  There
is nothing to generate as a package is a tarball.  But, if you want
to consolidate them,  you can.  How should we know what you and others
want consolidated (yeah, we can make a very good guess, but still).

Besides, we haven't provided RPMS for years.  So for years packagers
needed to do this work themselves (rpms, debs, etc).  Not much new,
except now it is distrubuted as many tarballs instead of a few tarballs.
Not a giant difference.

>>> packages without thinking one second what this means for rpm-driven systems
>>> and apckage-builders feels like nobody cares about users as also in
>>> bugreports like http://bugs.horde.org/ticket/9670
>>
>> They _DID_ think about this, and discussed it.
>
> even more worse seeing what happended finally

Why didn't you and others get involved in the discussions?

> THEY DID NOT THINK or how will you explain that for weeks the  
> main-menu was named
> "download" after this useless relaunch missing the old sidebar with  
> latest versions
> and direct download?

This is a separate issue (web site versus distribution methods).

> sure you CAN
> nobody on linux-system needs PEAR as primary source and nobody
> who is not total crazy is installing php/horde on windows

So now you are calling people crazy (because people DO install horde
on windows).  Nice...

> not breaking all packagers out there which rebuild new horde-versions
> with imp, kronolith and many other additional packages since years
> by download tarball, raise build-number in SPEC-File and type
> "rpmbuild horde.spec"

You can't do that from H3 to H4.  Too big a change. Even if they provided
you with consolidated tarballs, you would have a lot more work than that.

And if this was true, then how come there ARE people building RPMS for H4?

I guarantee that if horde relased tarballs like you want, you would have
to do a lot more than download them, bump your build-number in your existing
SPEC file, and type "rpmbuild horde.spec".  H3 and H4 are too different
for that to work...

-- 
Eric Rostetter
The Department of Physics
The University of Texas at Austin

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