[horde] Net_SMTP-1.6.0 breaks SMTP-Auth

Michael J Rubinsky mrubinsk at horde.org
Sat Aug 13 22:15:24 UTC 2011

Quoting Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:

> Am 13.08.2011 22:51, schrieb Michael J Rubinsky:
>> Quoting Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:
>>> Am 27.07.2011 18:17, schrieb Michael M Slusarz:
>>>> Quoting Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:
>>>>> Am 27.07.2011 06:23, schrieb Michael M Slusarz:
>>>>>> Quoting Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:
>>>>>>> hi
>>>>>>> sadly yesterdays update of Horde3 duest not fix this problem
>>>>>>> not is it fixed on the pear-side
>>>>>>> http://pear.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=18594
>>>>>> What does this have to do with Horde?  As you yourself have indicated
>>>>>> it is the PEAR package that is broken
>>>>> what indicates that the horde-developers are NOT using the latest
>>>>> pear versions since it seems only to be broken for horde
>>>> I'm glad you have empirical evidence to back this up.
>>>>> it does help if everybody says "not my problem"
>>>>> fact is that horde can not send mails with latest pear
>>>> Uhhh... thousands of people are sending messages just fine with  
>>>> the latest PEAR.
>>>> Please stop with your FUD.  You did the same thing to the PEAR people
>>> you should consider NOT calling all FUD which you do not understand
>>> and optimize the horde-testings instead shout out "You did the same
>>> thing to the PEAR people"
>> Well, they *did* ask you to curb your attitude.
>>> http://pear.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=18594
>>> -Status: Feedback +Status: Closed
>>> Thank you for your bug report. This issue has been fixed in the latest
>>> released version of the package, which you can download at
>>> http://pear.php.net/get/ Version 1.6.1 should fix the SASL-based  
>>> AUTH methods.
>> I'm sorry, I still fail to see how this has *anything* to do with  
>> Horde, other than the fact you enjoy irritating
>> open source developers. Let me recap: what you are saying is that  
>> the PEAR folks fixed an issue with *their* code,
>> that *they* wrote, that is *not* under *any* control of *anyone* on  
>> the Horde team and that somehow this is a bad
>> reflection on Horde? Hm. I guess we are responsible for bugs in PHP too?
>> I also find it interesting that, as you said in the thread at PEAR,  
>> "IMP is broken", but then later on indicate
>> that it was the changes made to the *PEAR* package that have fixed  
>> things for you. You then post back here in an "I
>> told you so", entitlement-laced attitude that you were correct in  
>> treating us with your normal outright disrespect.
>> Nice.
> i had no idea WHY tis exactly did not work

Then you should ASK, not blame. Since you already stated it was a  
known PEAR bug, it seems like you did know what was broken, and were  
asking us to fix a bug in another group's code.

> on the other hand THEY had not idea what is happening

Well, it is their code. If they do not know what is happening, they  
should find out. Of course they can only do so if given decent bug  
reports. "IMP is broken" is not a decent bug report.

> on the other hand a new horde-release came out which did not work
> with recent pear - so what should the enduser do if pear says
> "we can not reproduce what horde does" and horde says "we are not
> interested in pear-bugs"?

> normally this bugreport should made from horde-developers because
> their code did not work with recent libraries and the enduser has
> nothing to do with it

You mean "their code did not work with a recent _broken_  
library"...and yes, if it's an issue we were experiencing and able to  
reproduce, then we would have either made a report or sent them a  
patch that fixes it when we had the time to do so...as we have done  
numerous times.

> you say this is impossible?

No. I don't remember saying any such thing.

> i do this 365 days a year

Wow. I hope you get paid well for never having a day off.

> i my job and feel respsonsible for every
> piece of code which i use for my applications and try to workaround
> over bugs of libraries or try to help fix them wherever they happens

Sure. So do we. That's why I, as well as most of the Horde devs, have  
contributed back numerous patches to various PEAR libraries, as well  
as other open source projects when we find things that are broken.  
That's just being a good open source developer.

> and that is why i have no time and energy to debug horde/pear too

Well, by the same token, this *isn't* our job. We don't get a salary  
for this. We are mostly volunteers that have very limited time to  
spend coding outside of our dayjobs. We do this for fun, and for the  
love of coding. And as thanks for that we get your attitude.

As much as we would love to try to pull out useful information from  
statements such as "yesterdays update of Horde3 duest not fix this  
problem not is it fixed on the pear-side" *we* don't have the time or  
energy to do so either. We are going to spend our time coding new  
features and helping people with bugs that don't throw attitudes around.

Look, we understand the frustration that comes from not being able to  
get a critical-to-you issue fixed. We've ALL been there. Bottom line  
is you will find FOSS developers much more willing to help you when  
you lose the argumentative attitude you bring to just about every  
mailing list message and bug report that you post.


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mrubinsk at horde.org

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