[horde] [imp] default reply behavior in dimp/imp

[Michael M Slusarz]

Quoting Jan Schneider <jan at horde.org>:

> Zitat von Brent <impuser at bitrealm.com>:
>
>> Quoting Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt>:
>>
>>>> Am 06.09.2011 10:48, schrieb Vilius Šumskas:
>>>>>> Am 06.09.2011 09:53, schrieb Michael M Slusarz:
>>>>>>> And this is a fantastic feature of IMP.  One button = less  
>>>>>>> confusion for
>>>> the
>>>>>> users when they want to reply.  So
>>>>>>> IMP is better than mailers that have more than 1 button.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> why does the whole world think it is better to hide options
>>>>>> from users and think anybody is confused if he can select
>>>>>> between "reply to sender" or "reply to sender and all others"
>>>>> Because it is the way human brain works. Take a look at cars before
>>>> automatic gear box. You had to know at least minor things about how car
>>>> operates to do good over the wheel. Now, every older lady down the street
>>>> can do grocery shopping. Sure it does a little bit less miles to  
>>>> the gallon this
>>>> way, or you never want to ride automatic gear box in the race.  
>>>> But this is only
>>>> important for power users. And they always be a minority.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same goes with every device you own at home, including software.
>>>>
>>>> sorry but it is idiotic to take the decision "reply" or "reply  
>>>> all" away from the
>>>> users
>>>> this makes NOTHING easier, it makes it more complex for everybody who
>>>> knows what he
>>>
>>> As others already pointed out, it's not "taken away". For users  
>>> who *really* know what they are doing it is there, under drop down  
>>> menu.
>>
>> The problem is that most users know Outlook, and Outlook has a  
>> Reply button which means "Reply to Sender".  That label/button is  
>> ingrained into people...you can't change it.  So, when a Horde user  
>> sees a "Reply" button, they will logically assume it is going to  
>> the person that sent the message.  Sure, there is a pop-up that  
>> indicates what is going to happen, but habits are hard to break.  I  
>> think there should be another button like Outlook has for "Reply To  
>> All"; or if you insist on the one-button-to-rule-them-all, make the  
>> button text say something like "Reply To..." and force the user  
>> choose what they want.  I don't think any button with logic behind  
>> it should automatically make a default selection, especially with a  
>> heated debate about what the default should be.  Developers seem to  
>> like their feature, while users/administrators want to change it.
>>>
>>>> wants to do and in my opinion everybody who do not realize the difference
>>>> between both
>>>> should not use a computer at all
>>>
>>> You do realize that like 98% of computer users doesn't know the  
>>> difference between forward or reply, don't you? Or even what *is*  
>>> the mailing list?
>>
>> And THIS is the reason for the default.  The Horde list people grew  
>> tired of people hitting "Reply" and not having it go to the list  
>> and then had to explain to the user how to use the list  
>> appropriately.  I can deal with switching between email clients and  
>> an extra click to do what I want, but most people don't pay  
>> attention, which is the point you make above:  "98% of computer  
>> users doesn't know the difference between forward or reply".
>>
>> I'm all for progress in the UI, and I personally don't mind the new  
>> feature.  As as administrator, however, the change is actually  
>> quite drastic and that's why people are asking for the previous  
>> behaviour.  It won't matter how much information you send out to  
>> your users pimping the new features of the uber-Horde, the first  
>> time a high-level exec hits "Reply" and says something disparaging  
>> to the sender of the message and didn't notice it went out as  
>> "Reply to All" who/what is going to be blamed?
>
> I already suggested earlier to make the button text dynamic, but  
> didn't get any feedback. It's not a simple change because the reply  
> logic happens server-side, and that change would need to happen  
> client-side, but it would at least give the user an indication what  
> kind of reply is going to happen *before* he clicks that button. A  
> short WTF moment why there is a Reply To All button, but not Reply  
> button should get the dumbest user to discover that the button has a  
> drop down to pick from.

This could potentially be an option, and this would be something that  
is configurable (I would think it would be off by default, since this  
would require a bit of extra logic on every message view to  
pre-determine the correct reply default).  But it maintains the  
current (correct) behavior while providing more information to the  
user as to what he is going to do.

And totally agree with Jan: to those who think a user can't figure out  
a drop-down arrow element provides additional options related to the  
top-level element, a very common element in a variety of UIs, then you  
obviously regard your users a bunch of complete idiots.  This seems  
entirely unrealistic.

michael

___________________________________
Michael Slusarz [slusarz at horde.org]