[imp] Deleted messages not moved to trash from client
Simon Wilson
simon at simonandkate.net
Thu Apr 9 02:26:54 UTC 2009
He actually said "Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail",
not "Outlook Express". Having personal experience of Outlook
as an IMAP client that was the one I chose to discuss. Further
discussion of those clients and their behaviour as IMAP clients is
probably not a subject for this list other than for the sake of
comparing behaviours to Imp... <br /><br />Yes, I might have said
about prefs.php but it appeared to me that the OP's issue is not with
Horde at all, but rather with how those other clients behave and
interact with IMAP. What I did explain was what Imp does to achieve
the 'move to trash' that he is seeing that other clients may or may
not do. IMHO explaining *how* technically Imp does that or how that
behaviour can be modified would have added little to the understanding
of the OP in this particular instance...<br /><br />It seemed to me
that the OP had not understood the IMAP server / client interaction at
a conceptual level, which was what I was trying to clarify a little.
Maybe I didn't do a particularly good job... :)<br /><br />Quoting
"Craig White" <craigwhite at azapple.com>:<br /> <br />
> He said Outlook Express, which is a well behaved IMAP client, not<br />
> Outlook which is not a well behaved IMAP client.<br />
><br />
> You might have made it clear to OP that within<br />
> horde/imp/config/prefs.php is the ability to control the exact IMAP<br />
> client behavior which does allow him to move e-mail messages to a
folder<br />
> of his choosing rather than flag messages as deleted. While I don't<br />
> choose this type of setup, the options are clearly there within the<br />
> prefs.php file.<br />
><br />
> Craig<br />
><br />
> On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 10:09 +1000, Simon Wilson wrote:<br />
>> <quote>"given that I have selected the correct
Webmail option (and set<br />
>> the corresponding option in all my clients), why is it when a
remote<br />
>> IMAP client<br />
>> (Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail) executes a
"delete" command<br />
>> and that command is<br />
>> received by the IMAP server is it not translated into a
"move" to the<br />
>> trash folder<br />
>> command?"</quote><br />
>><br />
>> When any one of those remote IMAP clients connect what you
have done<br />
>> in WebMail has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
WebMail is just<br />
>> another "remote IMAP client" like Outlook (OK,
maybe not like Outlook<br />
>> LOL), etc. Just as Outlook not displaying anything correctly
is not<br />
>> the fault of your iPhone which does, neither is it the fault
of Horde<br />
>> or WebMail (Imp) which also does.<br />
>><br />
>> The commands that you have given to Imp to move to deleted
items<br />
>> folder when I delete a message just tells WebMail "when
I delete a<br />
>> message, tell the IMAP server to copy it to Deleted Items,
and to then<br />
>> purge it immediately from the original folder". Those
commands are<br />
>> being executed in your IMAP server, not Horde / Imp. Imp just
knows to<br />
>> send those commands.<br />
>><br />
>> Outlook does not have the capability to send those commands.
In fact<br />
>> it sucks as an IMAP client. :) All it will do is send the
delete (and<br />
>> the move? I can't remember), not the purge, although you can
tell it<br />
>> to purge on exit I believe.<br />
>><br />
>> So your issue lies with the clients that you are using not
being able<br />
>> to interface with IMAP in an intelligent manner. Thunderbird
isn't too<br />
>> bad I don't think from memory with IMAP... Imp / Dimp rocks
though.<br />
>> You can actually watch the process happen in Dimp as it
deletes then<br />
>> purges messages you hit delete for.<br />
>><br />
>> You cannot (I don't believe, maybe someone else can shed more
light<br />
>> here) tell IMAP to do that process on behalf of the client,
as it is a<br />
>> string of commands as noted above that has to come from a
client that<br />
>> knows which ones to send on your behalf. As far as I know,
Gmail,<br />
>> iPhone are able to send those, Outlook is not.<br />
>><br />
>> Just one terminology thing too - in IMAP, subfolders *are*
separate<br />
>> mailboxes, so Inbox is a different mailbox to
"Inbox.Deleted items".<br />
>> Hence why in IMAP when you tell your client to delete a
message it<br />
>> tells IMAP to copy the message to the folder that your client
has been<br />
>> told is where trash goes, then to delete and purge from the
original<br />
>> mailbox. When you tell it to empty Trash, it knows (cos
you've told<br />
>> it, or it's programmed to know) that Trash or Deleted Items, or<br />
>> whatever it is called, is your trash, and when you want to
delete from<br />
>> there to do a straight delete and purge, not move to another
folder<br />
>> (mailbox).<br />
>><br />
>> Hope some of that makes sense... LOL.<br />
>><br />
>> Simon Wilson.<br />
>><br />
>><br />
>><br />
>><br />
>> Quoting "E. John Messersmith III"<br />
>><br />
>> Well, I don't know what Gmail is doing either but the iPhone
gets it right<br />
>> in all cases and all clients get it right when using Gmail. I'm<br />
>> not being angry here just very frustrated. I don't know how I
can be any<br />
>> clearer. It is either a configuration parameter of IMAP or
Horde or both.<br />
>><br />
>> Webmail - which I think is also part of the Horde project -
gets it right<br />
>> too! So what is it doing? I go to Mail Options->Deleting
and Moving<br />
>> Messages and I simply<br />
>> check the option "When deleting messages, move them to
your Trash<br />
>> folder instead of<br />
>> marking them as deleted?" I select a message and click
the Delete<br />
>> link. No marking for<br />
>> deletion; no counting; no nothing - just a simple move from
one folder<br />
>> to another -<br />
>> everything is still in one Mailbox. So the "delete"
command simply<br />
>> gets translated (or is<br />
>> made equivalent to) a "move" to the trash folder
command. The client<br />
>> doesn't have to do<br />
>> anything. As long as the server moves the message to the
trash folder<br />
>> the new state is<br />
>> simply reflected (updated) in the client. Why is this so
difficult to<br />
>> understand? Is<br />
>> there something obvious I'm missing?<br />
>><br />
>> So my question remains: given that I have selected the
correct Webmail<br />
>> option (and set<br />
>> the corresponding option in all my clients), why is it when a
remote<br />
>> IMAP client<br />
>> (Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail) executes a
"delete" command<br />
>> and that command is<br />
>> received by the IMAP server is it not translated into a
"move" to the<br />
>> trash folder<br />
>> command?<br />
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