[horde] [imp] default reply behavior in dimp/imp

[Michael M Slusarz]

Quoting Brent <impuser at bitrealm.com>:

> Quoting Vilius Šumskas <vilius at lnk.lt>:
>
>>> Am 06.09.2011 10:48, schrieb Vilius Šumskas:
>>>>> Am 06.09.2011 09:53, schrieb Michael M Slusarz:
>>>>>> And this is a fantastic feature of IMP.  One button = less confusion for
>>> the
>>>>> users when they want to reply.  So
>>>>>> IMP is better than mailers that have more than 1 button.
>>>>>>
>>>>> why does the whole world think it is better to hide options
>>>>> from users and think anybody is confused if he can select
>>>>> between "reply to sender" or "reply to sender and all others"
>>>> Because it is the way human brain works. Take a look at cars before
>>> automatic gear box. You had to know at least minor things about how car
>>> operates to do good over the wheel. Now, every older lady down the street
>>> can do grocery shopping. Sure it does a little bit less miles to  
>>> the gallon this
>>> way, or you never want to ride automatic gear box in the race. But  
>>> this is only
>>> important for power users. And they always be a minority.
>>>>
>>>> The same goes with every device you own at home, including software.
>>>
>>> sorry but it is idiotic to take the decision "reply" or "reply  
>>> all" away from the
>>> users
>>> this makes NOTHING easier, it makes it more complex for everybody who
>>> knows what he
>>
>> As others already pointed out, it's not "taken away". For users who  
>> *really* know what they are doing it is there, under drop down menu.
>
> The problem is that most users know Outlook, and Outlook has a Reply  
> button which means "Reply to Sender".

Disagree.  "Many" users may know Outlook.  But declaring that "most"  
users know Outlook is simply a materially incorrect assertion.  Recent  
estimates are anywhere from 20-40%.  So it is a sizable chunk, but it  
is not a crushing majority.

And this ignores the focus of the discussion anyway: just because  
Outlook does it, does not mean it is right (while "users are familiar  
with it" is a factor in making UI choices, it is not determinative).

> So, when a Horde user sees a "Reply" button, they will logically  
> assume it is going to the person that sent the message.

I *completely* disagree with this statement.

>  Sure, there is a pop-up that indicates what is going to happen, but  
> habits are hard to break.  I think there should be another button  
> like Outlook has for "Reply To All"; or if you insist on the  
> one-button-to-rule-them-all, make the button text say something like  
> "Reply To..." and force the user choose what they want.  I don't  
> think any button with logic behind it should automatically make a  
> default selection, especially with a heated debate about what the  
> default should be.  Developers seem to like their feature, while  
> users/administrators want to change it.
>>
>>> wants to do and in my opinion everybody who do not realize the difference
>>> between both
>>> should not use a computer at all
>>
>> You do realize that like 98% of computer users doesn't know the  
>> difference between forward or reply, don't you? Or even what *is*  
>> the mailing list?
>
> And THIS is the reason for the default.  The Horde list people grew  
> tired of people hitting "Reply" and not having it go to the list and  
> then had to explain to the user how to use the list appropriately.   
> I can deal with switching between email clients and an extra click  
> to do what I want, but most people don't pay attention, which is the  
> point you make above:  "98% of computer users doesn't know the  
> difference between forward or reply".
>
> I'm all for progress in the UI, and I personally don't mind the new  
> feature.  As as administrator, however, the change is actually quite  
> drastic and that's why people are asking for the previous behaviour.  
>  It won't matter how much information you send out to your users  
> pimping the new features of the uber-Horde, the first time a  
> high-level exec hits "Reply" and says something disparaging to the  
> sender of the message and didn't notice it went out as "Reply to  
> All" who/what is going to be blamed?

And I've received input just the opposite: that the new button is much  
easier to use.  Because it does what the user wants almost all of the  
time.  And in those times it doesn't do what the user wants, the user  
is clearly notified of the alternative.

michael

___________________________________
Michael Slusarz [slusarz at horde.org]