[horde] horde replacement

[Reindl Harald]

Am 04.03.2012 23:03, schrieb Gunnar Wrobel:
> Please be a bit more specific here. Horde is being repackaged in by sevetal distributions and it is something we
> encourage. We do not believe that PEAR is the only packaging system people should use. Absolutely not. I don't even
> like PEAR that much. Maybe we move to composer at some point.

compare how much subpackages H4 compared with H3
has and what hughe mork work it is build RPMs
for H4

> Right now you can install Horde via git, PEAR, RPMs, Debian packages, cPanel, Plesk 
> and so on. 

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=2047

why do you think there are still no H4 packages for Fedora
i saw the H4 release note a year ago and thought "fine,
i will refresh our internal packages"

this is not possible with the same amount of work as for H3
and if oyu are tthink people living for deal with you
re-organization in a hughe number of subpackages
you are simply wrong

> Of course it is slightly more difficult to get into the distros if you offer 
> 100 packages rather than 5. 

it is UNUSEABLE for packagers

> The benefit on the user side should be obvious as well: 
> You get modular packages that can use as building blocks for
> your own software. 

the user has mostly no idea how to deal with them
the user needs usually a working set of packages
with well designed dependencies from ONE package
managment like yum/apt and not the choice of
100 subpackages for a webapp

> Look at things like Horde_Imap_Client, Horde_ActiveSync, Horde_Date_Parser. 
> They have a natural right to exist stand alone.

and look how you broke the upgrade path form H3 to H4
do yiu really think anbody wil use your software as
base for his own developemnt fearing the next upstream
break?

> I would suggest to take a close look at why distributions are successful. 
> They are extremely modular. 

i would suggest that there is no need for a distribution inside the
distribution - you see your perfect world turining around horde
but the world does not!

> Why suddenly wish for monolithic software if this known to be a problematic model?

because you are not realizing that nobody needs a own distribution
like horde wrapped in a existing one - the world is not turning
around you, even not if your intention is good, you are missing
the reality

i can not spent a hughe amount of my lifetime for packaging horde
in the state of H4 and so i have only the chice to drop software
from ignorant developers not realizing how existing deployment
is done and ignoring that not the whhole world will spent
much additional time to maintain software wasting their time

PEAR is not useable in large environments
H4 is not easy packageable for large enviironments
so H4 is unuseable fro large environments

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