[horde] horde replacement

[Gunnar Wrobel]

Zitat von Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net>:

> Am 04.03.2012 23:03, schrieb Gunnar Wrobel:
>> Please be a bit more specific here. Horde is being repackaged in by  
>> sevetal distributions and it is something we
>> encourage. We do not believe that PEAR is the only packaging system  
>> people should use. Absolutely not. I don't even
>> like PEAR that much. Maybe we move to composer at some point.
>
> compare how much subpackages H4 compared with H3
> has and what hughe mork work it is build RPMs
> for H4

I explained why we have many packages. I realize this can result in  
more work on the side of the distributions. Nevertheless this is being  
repackaged and people are willing to invest the effort.

>
>> Right now you can install Horde via git, PEAR, RPMs, Debian  
>> packages, cPanel, Plesk
>> and so on.
>
> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=2047
>
> why do you think there are still no H4 packages for Fedora
> i saw the H4 release note a year ago and thought "fine,
> i will refresh our internal packages"
>
> this is not possible with the same amount of work as for H3
> and if oyu are tthink people living for deal with you
> re-organization in a hughe number of subpackages
> you are simply wrong

I don't get your point as there are packages for several distributions  
and others are being prepared.

>
>> Of course it is slightly more difficult to get into the distros if you offer
>> 100 packages rather than 5.
>
> it is UNUSEABLE for packagers

If it would be it wouldn't get repackaged. See above.

>
>> The benefit on the user side should be obvious as well:
>> You get modular packages that can use as building blocks for
>> your own software.
>
> the user has mostly no idea how to deal with them
> the user needs usually a working set of packages
> with well designed dependencies from ONE package
> managment like yum/apt and not the choice of
> 100 subpackages for a webapp

You project your needs on the needs of a large user base. As mentioned  
before modular software tends to cater different needs.

>
>> Look at things like Horde_Imap_Client, Horde_ActiveSync, Horde_Date_Parser.
>> They have a natural right to exist stand alone.
>
> and look how you broke the upgrade path form H3 to H4
> do yiu really think anbody wil use your software as
> base for his own developemnt fearing the next upstream
> break?

There was no break of the upgrade path. See the UPGRADE docs and  
upgrades from Horde 3 to Horde 4 is something we do constantly.

>
>> I would suggest to take a close look at why distributions are successful.
>> They are extremely modular.
>
> i would suggest that there is no need for a distribution inside the
> distribution - you see your perfect world turining around horde
> but the world does not!

No, that is a contorted image and nobody said that. I want Horde to be  
modular. I want Horde to integrate with other software. Horde is not  
perfect and there is nothing that needs to turn around it :P

>
>> Why suddenly wish for monolithic software if this known to be a  
>> problematic model?
>
> because you are not realizing that nobody needs a own distribution
> like horde wrapped in a existing one - the world is not turning
> around you, even not if your intention is good, you are missing
> the reality

I agree with you. As said before: On the developer side we have to  
focus on one packaging system. This is PEAR for now. We don't force  
you to use this. In fact if you are using Debian I would encourage you  
to stick to the Debian packaging system and install Horde 4 via  
"apt-get"-

>
> i can not spent a hughe amount of my lifetime for packaging horde
> in the state of H4 and so i have only the chice to drop software
> from ignorant developers not realizing how existing deployment
> is done and ignoring that not the whhole world will spent
> much additional time to maintain software wasting their time
>
> PEAR is not useable in large environments
> H4 is not easy packageable for large enviironments
> so H4 is unuseable fro large environments

See above :)

Cheers,

Gunnar

-- 
Core Developer
The Horde Project

e: wrobel at horde.org
t: +49 700 6245 0000
w: http://www.horde.org

pgp: 9703 43BE
tweets: http://twitter.com/pardus_de
blog: http://log.pardus.de