[horde] Fwd: [Tickets #12069] Re: Kronolith meetings don't show Organizer

[Jan Schneider]

Zitat von Simon Wilson <simon at simonandkate.net>:

>> Quoting Michael J Rubinsky <mrubinsk at horde.org>:
>>
>>> Quoting simon at simonandkate.net:
>>>
>>>> Anyway, moving on... is there a way to "+1" feature requests or  
>>>> bugs or similar, as some places have, to provide opportunity for  
>>>> your user community to give input on what they think important?  
>>>> How do you prioritise what is in the queue and is getting  
>>>> attention? Do you publish this information?
>>>
>>> We prioritize things pretty much the way I already described them.  
>>> While I can't speak for other developers, I'm sure we all do  
>>> similar prioritizing for the code we are responsible for.
>>
>> For the record: if there is an active bug report and/or enhancement  
>> request open on bugs.horde.org that has existed for more than a few  
>> days (read: it has been reviewed by at least one developer and not  
>> rejected), this is all the indication needed that the project  
>> agrees that something needs to be fixed/improved.
>>
>> Adding a '+1' comment that is NOT followed by either "Here is a  
>> patch...", or "Here is how you can duplicate...", or (ideally)  
>> "Here is funding..." is borderline spam.  We already know and agree  
>> there is an issue so this kind of comment provides no further  
>> information (or incentive) to look at the ticket further.
>>
>> michael
>>
>
> Michael - firstly please take this in the spirit it is intended: not  
> combative, just trying to challenge your stated views...
>
> Your response is completely from YOUR perspective. Horde exists for  
> real users, not developers. You guys develop and write it for us who  
> use it, many of us in small environments with only a handful of  
> users like me (for which as already stated I and many others are  
> grateful). Those of us who take the our own usually unpaid time (as  
> is usually yours, I get that too) to report bugs don't know that  
> just because a bug has been logged that it has been looked at,  
> reviewed and not rejected - how can we if you don't take the 30  
> seconds to hit "Comment" and type something like "Noted,  
> investigating"? Sorry, but zero response is not "indication that the  
> project agrees that something needs to be fixed". If someone speaks  
> to you, do you expect them to assume that if you don't reply you  
> agree with them? If that is the official Horde position, then this  
> attitude just makes me less likely to bother reporting bugs, and I  
> doubt that I am the only one in that boat. Classing follow-ups from  
> people adding their comments who don't necessarily fix it for you as  
> "borderline spam" is short-sighted and offensive. There is a large  
> difference between one person having an issue and multiple people  
> having the issue, whether or not the extra reporters provide fixes  
> or finance. There is a bug I reported 2 weeks ago that has had no  
> response - you are saying that means it has been "agreed that  
> something needs to be fixed". Then please take the time to note that  
> it has been looked at, and convince me that I am not wasting my time  
> reporting bugs. Or not... :-/

This argument is moot because we *do* answer reports. It might not be  
the response that you expect, like an elaborated analysis of the  
problem and what it takes to solve it, including estimated costs and a  
fixed deadline. If you expect that, hire Horde LLC.
Otherwise, setting a state of a request to Accepted, requesting more  
information from the reporter, or setting a bug state to Assigned is  
sign enough that the bug has been looked at. It might always happen  
that it takes a few days until this happens, because no one had time  
to look at it, or the developer working mostly on the area that was  
reported is currently unavailable. But I for one go through all unread  
bug messages every few days for a quick triage. And I know other  
developers are doing the same for the areas they are interested in.
That being said, it might always happen that a ticket slips through  
the cracks. We are currently at a ticket count of over 12,000, maybe  
you cannot imagine how much developer time has already been spent on  
looking at *every single one* of those. If that happens, a friendly  
reminder would be nice, after a bug has not been acted onfor two weeks  
or so.

> I'm no dummy in this stuff, I am a highly qualified 15+ year IT  
> manager with experience managing enterprise systems like Peoplesoft,  
> including teams of developers, project managers, on major business  
> transformation programs, etc. One of my main life and career  
> learnings is that taking the time to keep stakeholders informed and  
> engaged is NEVER wasted time. It is unfortunately something that  
> many technical people don't see the value in.
>
> If you don't see those of us out here as stakeholders in Horde,  
> whether or not we financially contribute, then I think that is your  
> loss not ours.
>
> My opinion.

And quite an assumption of yours that we don't care. Horde is a  
community project, and without the community we were nothing. It was  
already mentioned that we appreciate feedback and bug reports a lot.  
Assuming anything else is pretty offensive.
We might not handle this feedback they way you like, but we *do*  
handle it, and it's our choice *how* we handle it, since you are not  
our IT or project manager. If you aren't happy with our priorities,  
you have means to change them. Michael pretty well summed it up how we  
build our priorities.
-- 
Jan Schneider
The Horde Project
http://www.horde.org/