[imp] Feature request

[Rich Lafferty]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 09:36:41AM -0800, Richard (poboxcanada@yahoo.com) wrote:
> 

> The clients I mentioned do not fill up their disk if
> they are using IMAP.  They work just like IMP, except
> that the clients I mentioned have abstracted the
> "delete-and-expunge" step of the IMAP protocol and
> made a trash folder out of it (delete = move to trash,
> expunge = empty trash).  All of these messages exist
> on the server only.

And do these programs empty the trash when the user exits the program?

Besides, of course they don't fill up *their* disk, they fill up the
*mail server*. Note that this isn't "they might"; it's the sort of
thing we have to work with daily on 14k-user machines here. Moving
mail to a place that can be forgotten about means that it's forgotten
about. 

Remember, all we can do is hope that users click "logout" in order to
get a positive indication that they're done with the program; we don't
know if they leave the IMP site, or if they close their browser, or if
they shut down their computer, without logging out.

If a user leaves a message in the "trash" folder and logs out without
deleting it, what's he to think when it appears back in his INBOX when
he starts up an IMAP client that decided to interpret the specification 
less creatively? Standards don't exist to pick and choose what you
like, and pretending that something is a folder when it isn't is
an awfully bletcherous special case.

What if a user has a real mailbox called "Trash"?

> As developers, we should be focusing on a UI that
> matches the end-user's schema of how mail should work,
> and not how the underlying protocol works!  We have
> the ability to abstract that.

I wasn't aware that you had become the arbiter of how mail should
work. For what it's worth, I'll accept the authority of the folks that
wrote the IMAP spec, Mutt, Pine, Elm, and so forth, instead of you and
those who decided to make their IMAP clients look like POP clients.
What's abstract about "delete this message from this folder"?
Personally, I'm fond of getting *rid* of the stupidisms in Windows
desktop mail programs. "But someone else did it!" is an awfully weak
argument.

> As an aside, referring to an option that deletes all
> messages in any given folder as a "power-user" option
> is akin to referring to someone who disables the
> safety on their gun a "power-user".  A power-user is
> someone who has a keen understanding of a system, its
> options and features, and is capable of squeezing
> every ounce of functionality out of that system to
> meet their goals.

That's awfully poetic and all, but what on earth is your point?

If you design for the person you described, you've just designed over
the heads of the majority of users, who don't give the first damn
about squeezing ounces, and just want to read their mail.

  -Rich

-- 
------------------------------ Rich Lafferty ---------------------------
 Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services
   Concordia University, Montreal, QC                 (514) 848-7625
------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ----------------------