[imp] Some of our users are loosing their mails.

Thu Feb 20 11:10:44 UTC 2014

Zitat von ANANT S ATHAVALE <asa at isac.gov.in>:

> ----- Message from Jan Schneider <jan at horde.org> ---------
>    Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:27:30 +0100
>    From: Jan Schneider <jan at horde.org>
> Subject: Re: [imp] Some of our users are loosing their mails.
>      To: imp at lists.horde.org
>
>> Zitat von ANANT S ATHAVALE <asa at isac.gov.in>:
>>
>>> ----- Message from Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org> ---------
>>>    Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:03:48 -0700
>>>    From: Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [imp] Some of our users are loosing their mails.
>>>      To: imp at lists.horde.org
>>>
>>>> Quoting ANANT S ATHAVALE <asa at isac.gov.in>:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Message from Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org> ---------
>>>>>    Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 23:33:54 -0700
>>>>>    From: Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [imp] Some of our users are loosing their mails.
>>>>>      To: imp at lists.horde.org
>>>>>
>>>>>> Quoting Simon B <simon.buongiorno at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 20 Feb 2014 05:54, "ANANT S ATHAVALE" <asa at isac.gov.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dear List,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The users are using horizontal view.  They click on a message and
> it
>>>>>>>> gets
>>>>>>>> displayed at the bottom half.  This also makes check box left to
>>>
>>> that
>>>>>>>> message getting selected.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, they scroll down to see some other mails and while viewing,
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> decide to select some mails which can be deleted without even
>>>>>>>> opening/seeing.  So, they do it by checking/clicking on the check
>>>
>>> box
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> by now, they have already forgotten that, there is one message on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> top,
>>>>>>>> which is already selected as it was being viewed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, they click on Delete.  So, this makes one extra mail getting
>>>>>>>> deleted,
>>>>>>>> though they don't intend to delete it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Though, I feel, it is the user who is doing the mistake, but, how
> to
>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>> this happening, even unknowingly.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a confirmation preference isn't there?  To have a pop-up
>>>>>>> confirming
>>>>>>> deletes?  Turn it on and lock it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And/or use a trash mailbox.  So it is not a destructive action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> michael
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___________________________________
>>>>>> Michael Slusarz [slusarz at horde.org]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> imp mailing list
>>>>>> Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQTo unsubscribe,
>>>>>> mail: imp-unsubscribe at lists.horde.org
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- End message from Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org> -----
>>>>>
>>>>> The main problem is, they should immediately realise that, they have
>>>>> deleted a mail accidently.  The users would have either setup Trash
>>>>> cleanup policy or they may be cleaning up on their own. Realilsing the
>>>>> mistake later is a problem.
>>>>
>>>> At some point, a user has to accept responsibility for pressing the
>>>> delete button.  You can't make deleting a process that takes seconds
>>>> every time you do it or else the user wont use your program.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, there was a study somewhere that indicated that the confirm
> delete
>>>> file message in Windows was absolutely worthless.  After the first few
>>>> times it was viewed, people just clicked OK blindly to remove the modal
>>>> popup whether they meant to delete the message or not.  The popup did
>>>> nothing to warn them - it was just an annoyance.
>>>>
>>>> Same here.  The Trash mailbox exists for precisely this purpose
>>>> (analogous to the recycle bin on Windows).  Users know to search there
>>>> if they accidentally remove something.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see the need for a modal popup warning in Trash mailbox
> either. 
>>>> If people are individually deleting messages from the Trash, they have
>>>> gone out of their way to go into there, select individual messages, and
>>>> click Delete.  This is *2* times they have indicated they want to
> delete
>>>> that message.  If that is not confirmation that they really want the
>>>> message deleted, then nothing is. (Again... a modal popup is NOT going
>>>> to help here for the same reasons as stated above.)
>>>>
>>>> Or else you can simply disable deletions in the Trash mailbox and rely
>>>> on a logintask/cron job to periodically clean out the trash.  Then
> users
>>>> could never permanently delete messages on their own.
>>>>
>>>> michael
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________
>>>> Michael Slusarz [slusarz at horde.org]
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> imp mailing list
>>>> Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQTo unsubscribe,
>>>> mail: imp-unsubscribe at lists.horde.org
>>>
>>> ----- End message from Michael M Slusarz <slusarz at horde.org> -----
>>>
>>> I agree with everything.  But, still not clear why a mail should get
>>> selected when opened for viewing.  If I get a clarification on this, I
>>> can
>>> convince my users.  I know, there may be very genuine technical reason
>>> behind it, which I am unable to think of.  Please clarify. 
>>>
>>> I know, the efforts which has gone through developing this application
> by
>>> you is tremendous and it is very easy to question somebody, but when it
>>> comes to implementation, there will be some technical constraints.
>>>
>>> So, just wanted to understand the same, so that, it is easy for me to
>>> convince my users, why such behaviour.
>>
>> Because that's exactly what you want or expect from a mail client. If
>> you view a message, then click delete, you want to delete exactly that
>> message.
>> --
>> Jan Schneider
>> The Horde Project
>> http://www.horde.org/
>> https://www.facebook.com/hordeproject
>>
>> --
>> imp mailing list
>> Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.horde.org/FAQTo unsubscribe,
>> mail: imp-unsubscribe at lists.horde.org
>
> ----- End message from Jan Schneider <jan at horde.org> -----
>
> OK.  I am understanding....But, is the following logic worth implementing?
>
> Option 1: If more than 1 message is selected, clicking on delete should not
> delete the message which has also been opened for viewing.  It should
> exclude the mail which has been opened for viewing.

This would be very unexpected behaviour. Any message that I view is  
selected (see above). If I select more messages, it's completely  
unexpected if either the currently viewed message gets unselected, or  
the message isn't deleted even though it's selected.

> Option 2: If only 1 message is selected and irrespective of whether it is
> also opened for viewing or not, clicking delete button, should delete that
> mail.
>
> Sorry to trouble you with my ideas and it may not be feasible also.  But,
> I think, this may solve our users issue of unknowingly deleting the mail
> which was basically opened for viewing and not for deleting purpose.
> -- 
>           Regards
>            Anant
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-- 
Jan Schneider
The Horde Project
http://www.horde.org/
https://www.facebook.com/hordeproject